Thanks, that is good to know.

With respect to the salute, do understand that it's pretty much a requirement that we salute when we enter and leave servers (I seem to recall it was for ATF as well), so if exclusive use of *S* is really an expectation, this may still work out like a rocking-chair in a room full of long-tail cats.

I guess I'm a little mixed up on why someone could have an expectation of exclusive rights to a common greeting. I can understand kicking for personal racial attacks or if someone is being an ass, we share many of the same rules, just as we share the same salute. Knowing our common history, expecting compliance with this exclusive salute idea is a stretch.

To put this in perspective, imagine most Americans reactions if the Brits attempted to tell us we couldn't say "hello" when in England. We should revel in exporting our culture.
I do appreciate your engagement on thse issues *S*

They even salute you on the hudreds of pr0n websites ya visit, do they?

Homos, every one of you. *S*

Sure, but its still their server and they can do what they want with it. I understand what youre saying though.

I was just saying to me it seems like a strange thing to get bent out of shape over.
And like i said I wasn't challenging the rule just stating that i find it strange that some people are so protective of something that is not exclusive to their group.
If SAC and ATF were the only two clans to use it then i would be far more understanding/accepting of the rule.
also As i had formerly posted "i guess thems the rules"

however we should not intern perputuat the infatuation with the Use of the salute and who has what rights, etc.

Insted lets let the water flow under the bridge and continue your good work to improve relations between the clans.

Ex Shire, we understand your defensiveness on this issue, but I think eveyone who's posted in this thread understands that ATF is made up of many different personalities, and that these decisions are not necessarily yours, but that you are a messenger. I thank you for that, but look at his past posts and there's no bitching at you, there is criticism and understandable incredulity at the idea, but also acceptance. Considering where we came from at the start of all this, that ain't bad IMO.   If all of us keep this about ideas and not personalities (of us or our children) we will avoid most of the pitfalls of this kind of parley.

Perhaps without going into all the history, could you outline the "good reason" you are referring to? I was in ATF and I must admit that anything approaching a "good reason" for it has completely escaped my attention.  Please summarize the logic that can allow someone to reach such a conclusion.  I have already provided several reasons, in the posts above, why I feel that the stance you seem to be defending lacks a logical foundation.  Without some meaningful rebuttal, I don't see why the idea of an exclusive *S* stance should be above ridicule (any more than if we started banning people from our servers for, say, using the letter "M"). 

Sincerely *S*

OK, it just sounds odd. We let people salute each other and haven't had a single issue as far as I know. If someone is being rude they get kicked. Making more rules than that and then having to enforce them would be more work for me as a server admin, not less.

So you need to understand how that rule would sound arbitrary to experienced outsiders. And since it also happens to outlaw a mechanism both our clans use quite regularly (on any server, for exactly the same reason) the term "arbitrary" might not be the best fit from my perspective.  

You indicated that your exclusive salute rule went into effect years ago. With that in mind,  since we did not have that rule while I was with you, I'm left to assume the rule was, perhaps, put into place coincidentally close to when SAC broke away from ATF?   Let me know if I'm going too far afield here, but could it have been more than coincidence, perhaps having less to do with the unlikely-sounding ease-of-server-admin rationale than just plain spite?  (Edit - Corrected, the rule appears to have predated the split between our two groups, so this aspect isn't just spite, though it does still seem arbitrary)

I totally agree that avoiding recriminations is desirable here, but here again, the only thing I can think of on salutes where the past would be at all relevant, frankly boils down to spite.

I very much appreciate what you have contributed here to the reduction of that spite, though there is clearly more work to be done.  As leaders, it's our actions that subordinates will use as examples to follow, and we clearly do have a lot more in common than we have differences.  

Here's to future relations where our judgements and policies are based more soley on the content of one's character than upon historical baggage. *S*